Readers Sound Off: 'Take Away Guns,' 'Leave Guns Alone,' Protect Our Liberty, Iowans Say Post-Newtown
The discussion has been bountiful - as it should be - in debating the important issues in post-Newtown America.
Patch readers are passionate, and this has never been more evident than the debate that has followed the Newtown shootings.
Here is a sampling of how Iowans are feeling across several articles.
It's all about access to good mental health professionals and clinics. Many serious crimes could be prevented with proper intervention.
Worldwide, far more kids are killed by government sponsored violence and war then by mentally ill people. Work on that first.
There are far too many mentally ill people that are just running wlld, doing whatever they want. It is time that people recognize how ill these people are and dangerous, and make sure they get the help they need. Some should be committed so they can't hurt themselves or anyone else.
We just need the political will to change our laws to ban assault weapons and large magazines of ammunition. We also need to treat more of our mentally ill more effectively. It's a question of access to mental health treatment and court-ordered treatment for those too sick to know they need help. Families need to be more proactive to watch for the signs.
It is sad that whenever a tragic event occurs in America, the people tend to react by asking the government it increase safety by taking away a little bit of liberty.
Take away the guns and they'll come up with other weapons. Even in totalitarian societies and dictatorships, people still found ways to murder. You have no outer security until you have inner security.
We have to start with our culture. We have sensationalized violence in our movies, tv shows, video games etc with such graphic stuff you see nowadays. This hasn't happened overnight and it won't get corrected overnight either. But, let's start there. Along with that, a better way of gun registration. The mother in CT was apparently an aficianado of guns. Nothing wrong with that, but they must be kept under pretty tight security. ... Having everyone being armed is certainly not the answer.
I would have to say a combination of improvement of mental health treatment and access thereof, and writing more comprehensive gun control laws.
Beefing up security in public places can make people feel safer, but it also can also mean treating innocent people like criminals. (Like children and little old ladies in wheelchairs getting detained in airport security) ... All too often, media and video games have been wrongfully made scapegoats.
We do have a mental health crisis in our country, but the mentally ill are more likely to be the victims of violent crimes than the perpetrators. I'm all for a discussion about improving mental health care, but not in lieu of a discussion over gun laws.
If schools were as secure as airports, this wouldn't have happened.
There are enough incidents where highly trained police officers either drop or have their guns taken from them to convince this parent that I would NEVER want any teacher to carry or stash a gun in a classroom. Lock the buildings and make it difficult just to waltz into any school.
Lets leave the guns alone and lock up all the crazies like we use to do.
Considering that an armed guard did nothing at Columbine, considering that the statistics on any one attack are so low that it is guaranteed to be a very boring monotonous job, and that the $75k/school that it would cost to fund this program would most likely be required by already cash-strapped schools, I cannot understand why anyone would think that this is a good idea.
Read more:
NRA Calls for 'Armed Security' Around Schools; Iowans Respond
To Arm with Weapons or Not to Arm with Weapons? The Iowa Patch Poll
Red Iowa Survey: 75% Support Armed Guards in Schools; 62% Oppose Ban on Rapid-Fire Guns
Deb Patterson
6:44 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
We need armed security in our schools. everywhere. everything single school in the United States need armed security. whether that is police officers parent volunteers that are trained in gun safety or a private security firm. gun free zones make children sitting ducks.
Stephen Schmidt
9:26 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
I think the most practical way most school districts could afford to do that (just thinking from a fiscal perspective) would likely be to certify certain already existing staff members to use firearms. Something like a librarian assistant/tech specialist/master of arms. Even then, if you could get over that training/certification hurdle which likely would have to be paid for by the district for each staff member for each building, I would assume there would be a mountain of potential liability problems of arming your staff.
And that's even if you get passed the tricky question of if you want your staff armed in the first place.
Stephen Schmidt
9:27 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
By "each staff member for each building" I mean the at least one staff member for each building you'd need to train. Not all of the staff.
Richard Freespirit Semancik
1:47 am on Friday, January 4, 2013
Meditation is the key to fixing all of this! Everyone who has killed people have had mental disorders that could be fixed! http://www.squidoo.com/meditation-focus-supplements
Joe Dygas
9:30 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
I agree with you Deb. In addition, we need national legislation ensuring the right to concealed carry in all public places be it a school, movie theatre, mall etc. We also need a national right to self defense law so that victims of attacks who use a weapon to defend themselves are not liable for lawsuits or arrest. We also need national legislation to fix the problem of mental health specialists, parents or others who refuse to law enforcement those individuals who have violent histories, or express violent intentions etc. In most mass shootings, these mentally defective individuals have expressed their intentions but no one took them seriously. In addition, there needs to be a privacy law to protect gun owners from the news media publishing their names and addresses out of spite. Remember do not vote for liberals in the next election, they are the problem not the solution for anything.
Melvin M.
6:08 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Joe, why concealed? That's like the Doomsday Machine in Dr. Strangelove -- it doesn't work if people don't know about it. Our state law is carry, not concealed carry. Be loud, be proud, and get it out there in the open. As a matter of fact, I think everyone should be able to pack any kind of heat they want, no matter how old they are, no matter what gender or race they are, no matter what their sexual orientation is, no matter what their religion is, no matter what race they belong to. That way, you wouldn't need privacy laws, because everyone would have a gun.
Bob Julander
9:30 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Totaly a mental health issue and further proof that it doesn't take much to fuel those who want to disarm america. Could start with some control of what's on TV. I cringed when the advertisement to the "Texas Chain Saw Massacre" aired during the Iowa State game and I didn't care for it airing while my young grandkids were watching the game. They could skip the Viagra commercials too. I read where our kids end up viewing thousands of murders on TV and video games before they are even 10 yrs. old. The problem is not hard to identify.
maxine weimer
1:25 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
I agree with you Bob.
maxine weimer
9:42 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Sorry but planting an armed guard at every single school in America will not prevent these mass shootings from happening. These people are not stupid, they would figure out who is armed and go for them first. In my opinion, it is the state that needs to get a hand on the mentally ill and keep them in check.
Kurt B.
4:12 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
good one Maxine. And, I still repeat what I have said before : what about the school parking lots, stadiums, libraries, churches, shopping centers, farmers markets, soccer fields, acquatic centers and on and on. We can put 50 guards in every school..... that will help if the next one happens in a school. But, what if it happens somewhere else ?
Dawn Ask Martin
10:40 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Speaking of mentally ill here's Webster's definition of paranoia:
paranoia: n. a mental disorder which the sufferer believes that other people suspect, despise or persecute him or, less commonly, in which the sufferer has delusions of grandeur.
What scares me most are sufferers (who don't realize they are sufferers) of paranoia who turn around and think that the answer to their fear of gun violence is more guns, and this culture seems to be becoming more and more accepting of a shoot-first-and-ask-questions-later mentality.
I hear a lot of talk about the right to own guns, but not enough about the responsibilities and consequences of irreversible decisions by "responsible" gun owners.
Stephen Schmidt
10:56 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Commenters from other Patches may be interested in this story from Iowa City Patch: http://iowacity.patch.com/articles/addendum-superintendent-murley-says-adding-armed-officers-to-iowa-city-schools-not-feasible
Deb Thornton
11:52 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Take a look at this story from Ohio:
The local school boards determine carry standards in their schools......I would support not only armed security in schools, but trained/armed teachers.
http://eagnews.org/hundreds-of-ohio-educators-sign-up-for-firearms-training-course/
Stephen Schmidt
12:49 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
That will be interesting to watch. If it's successful and the public accepts it I would expect programs like that to spread to other parts of the country. But we'll see.
Deb Thornton
11:55 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Our church has posted a "no concealed carry/firearms" sign. Getting ready to send them a letter stating that if that's the case I want all kitchen knives/dining knives which aren't plastic removed, all letter openers, all box cutters, all hammers, all baseball bats, all shovels, any and all items which could be used by any person to do any sort of violence to be completely removed! Eagerly anticipating the vestry response! Ha!
Kurt B.
3:46 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
This will be interesting. While you are at it, have them ban all cars, pickup trucks, lawn mowers, motorcycles, chainsaws, gas cans, paint cans, etc etc etc.
I hate to say it but if you look at what is happening in other parts of the world with mass killings, it has nothing at all to do with guns or knives. It is all hidden vests and vehicles. Don't say "it'll never happen here" as we don't have the immigration infrastructure in place to prevent it.
Melvin M.
6:15 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Deb, you can post all you want, but the current Iowa law doesn't mention ANY restrictions on places where firearms can be carried, so anyone who wants to pack heat in the narthex has at least Iowa's blessing. BTW, restrictions on guns in airports, federal buildings, etc. are federal restrictions, and thus trump state laws.
Anra Toenail
12:41 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
This was set up by the government (obama) to take away our guns. Aurora, colorado didn't get the convo sparked up enough so he decided to go after children, because that would really get america talking. The issue here is NOT gn control. It's the goverment. For those who don't believe it was a government setup... Gun control is still NOT the issue, it's mental health!!
Stephen Schmidt
12:47 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
So just so I have it clear, you're saying Aurora and Newtown were both government sanctioned conspiracies to garner more support for gun control legislation?
Jim Zupan
4:15 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Well Toenail, I'll give you this, you make a good case for the mental health issue...
Anra Toenail
12:50 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
I believe so, yes. And I'm not the only one. Read up on both sides. You'd be surprised the 'coincidences' that pop up.
maxine weimer
8:47 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Well I don't put much past the government these days, but I'm gonna have to think about that one, although I agree that it is not a gun issue, it is a mental health issue and I also think that parents don't have enough time to spend with thier children these days, and I am NOT blaming parents because I know they both have to work, but it seems to me that kids have to go from being in school all day to an after school program, and then home to eat dinner and go to bed. Where is the time to instill morals and bring them up in a loving, family atmosphere? Daycare providers end up raising the kids for 8 to 10 hours a day before they start school. I'm getting frustrated with the lack of respect teenagers have in public, and the screaming children running rampant through the stores, where is the discipline? My point being, alot of these kids will grow up thinking they can have whatever they want and end up taking what is not given to them. People have to start raising thier children to give respect and to demand it be given back.
maxine weimer
4:56 pm on Friday, January 4, 2013
Anra, the government has done alot of low down stuff but to accuse them of hiring someone to shoot and kill 26 people in cold blood is just wrong. Jim nailed it when he said you were a good case for the mental health issue!
maxine weimer
8:50 pm on Friday, January 4, 2013
Are you serious Anra? Do you actually believe that the government is behind that terrible, hedious crime in Newtown? And the one in Colorado? Please enlighten me on your thoughts.
Julie Kirby
1:28 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Oh my...I bet you're a "truther," too.
John
2:28 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
If I remember correctly, spending and the deficit were the most important issues in the election on the right and are going to ruin our country, but when it comes to militarizing every school district in the country, you're all for it, no matter the cost! I guess as long as we spend our money on death and machines, the government is doing its' job. Wackos!
Joe Morr
3:59 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
A lot of you people talk like the crazies doing these cowardly acts of violence. Not all of the people doing these things may not have mental health problems but most of you want to blame it on this. My wife and myself find it hard to believe, you wake up and decide to go out and kill people. Guns are still part of the problem. Let's place this on the table too. The NRA wants to arm all schools with people with guns. Where are we going to place this individual, at the east door or the west one? Will they have to wear depends as they will not be able to take potty breaks or meal breaks. There must be a better way. We need a safe way to protect all kids from K-12th grade but in doing so, will we be scaring the little ones? We have detectors in airports, federal buildings and we may have to look at this. Locking doors with cameras, the issuing of entry cards for every student is another probability. We have a security problem in our United States and if our legislators do not try to solve it immediately it could happen again and again so let's all jar their attention. We cannot wait like the fiscal cliff we just watched our congress go through. THIS CONCERNS CHILDREN!!!
maxine weimer
7:11 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Joe, there are alot of mentally ill people who do what you just said...wake up and decide to go on a rampage. Its the voices in thier schitzo heads that tell them to do it. And anyone else who does it, is just plain evil. No one who can shoot a room full of babies is either sane or normal, so that leaves the insane, or mentally challenged and the evil SOB's that just want to see and do it for the thrill of it. Either way, guns are not the problem and arming schools is not the answer. Metel detectors at each door might help, better more sophistocated means of contacting the police, and making sure the police are arriving on the scene alot faster than they uisually do. It's all a hell of a call to have to make, but this country i going down a bad road and its got to stop.
Deb Thornton
8:03 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Unfortunately, in general, the only thing the police can actually do is - clean up the mess. By the time they get there, no matter how fast the response - the crime has already been committed. The police are never called BEFORE the crime. And rarely ever actually prevent one. They just clean up afterwards and make the arrest, if the person hasn't committed suicide.
Jack F
10:05 pm on Friday, January 4, 2013
Did joe just talk about using "depends "??? Now that is funny.
Dawn Ask Martin
4:49 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
"Mental illness" is a relative term that encompasses such a broad spectrum of conditions. It can be as mild as OCD, hydrophobia or the winter blues, or truly dangerous conditions with violent psychopathic and sociopathic tendencies.
Those with OCD or mild depression should not be lumped in with those who actually pose threats to themselves and/or others when determining who is sane enough to possess a firearm. I'd bet most of us have suffered some mild form of mental illness at some point in our lives.
Deb Thornton
6:43 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
There are actually some interesting studies out there on "protecting children." Back when people had many children - and, yes, many died from various illnesses and they were needed to work to help support the family - there was not this overriding concern to "protect them at all cost." Now, when families mostly only have 1 or 2 - they are incredibily precious.......yet we allow abortion on demand.....and must not "scare" them and have counseling for every issue at every turn - when the violence on TV is pervasive. Reminds me of the interesting times curse.
maxine weimer
8:28 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Ok, this might sound really bad but I think putting bars on the doors and windows would prevent someone from breaking the glass to get in like in Newtown. But its rediculous that in this day and time we have to even be so concerned about having to do something like this. I tell my grandkids about what it was like for me in the sixties as a kid, and they look at me like I have two heads! When I tell them I used to stay out till midnight playing hide and go seek in downtown Dayton, Ohio they just can't even believe it because of course you can't let your kids do that now. It is as sad, sad world our children and grand children are growing up in when we are scared to even let them out of our site.
Proud UNI Grad
2:29 pm on Friday, January 4, 2013
If many of you have your way, Toenail will be carrying a gun to "protect" us all from the crazy people. Be very careful what you wish for.
maxine weimer
5:07 pm on Friday, January 4, 2013
Who will protect us from her?
Julie Kirby
7:22 am on Saturday, January 5, 2013
That's what I was thinking, Maxine!
MarleneD
9:17 am on Saturday, January 5, 2013
I don't believe the crazy was mentally ill at all! He was an full-blown addict of voilent behavior brought on by watching violence in movies, violent video games, books, television, you name it! Just as any addict of any form of vice, be it drugs, gambling, drinking, etc. The addict pushes the limits of pleasure to the next 'high'. We'll never know the whole truth behind this kid, but I imagine his mother was fed up with his obsession and may have taken steps to 'withdraw' him, pull him out of it. She had those guns to protect herself from her own kid! Sadly, once she angered this violent animal, he took his rage out on innocents. We, as a society are to blame for this. We've promoted it, fed it to young people far too long in all media. It's not a mental health issue....It's pleasure seeking addiction toward violent acts, pure and simple!
Kurt B.
9:32 am on Saturday, January 5, 2013
Unfortunately, Marlene , as you stated , we will never know the truth of this situation as both the mother and son are gone. We can do all the guessing and conjecturing that we want, but .... we will never know for sure. Even his computer was destroyed when all of this started.
And, there are numerous studies that indicate the violent video games do not lead to violent behavior. There might be some cases of this coincidence, but the studies indicate there is no direct association. Therefore, I am willing to suggest that our countries health care system is a part of the problem ( either ignoring the individuals problem, or not recognizing it as a problem, or it could have been someone who refused to go to treatment ). But, please don't assume that things will get better as soon as Obamacare kicks in fully in 2014 as this is mainly a tax-game meant to get millions and billions of dollars from all of us to fund an unproven care system that begins in 2014.
Proud UNI Grad
9:50 am on Saturday, January 5, 2013
Ah yes, Our lawmakers are not only incompetent but now they are downright evil. They are intentionally sabotaging our country with Obamacare as nothing more than an elaborate tax system that has little to nothing to do with healthcare. They enjoy deceiving us all and waiting for our country to fail. Muaahaahahah!! Your conspiracy theory is much worse than Marlene's theory.
Kurt B.
9:55 am on Saturday, January 5, 2013
Not to change the subject but ..... if you know of anyone who has a "brief" 100 page ( or less ) summary of what Obamacare is actually all about .... read up on it. It is mainly a tax package ( as confirmed by Supreme Court ). Just wait one more year and we will all see. Beware of any gov't document that is over 5 pages . The Obamacare one is 2,700 pages. Happy reading ! It isn't a conspiracy theory .... it's fact. All you have to do is read up on it.
maxine weimer
6:04 pm on Saturday, January 5, 2013
Proud UNI Grad.......I know what you said is purely sarcastic, but if you can read it without the sarcasim, it is spot on true. Obamacare is going to tax us to death and DC IS incompetent and downright evil! I know we always seem to dissagree on most everything but Kurt is right. Why is it that Washington, DC is the most richet part of the country right now? It didn't used to be. Obama and all histightest cronies are nothing but tax magnets. They are going to tax the hell out of us and its going into thier pockets. Why do you think he can't get the debt under control? Because he spends alot but he never proves exactly where it all goes so he can pocket it.
Steve Wikert
10:30 am on Wednesday, February 20, 2013
Check this out!
http://cedarfalls.patch.com/blog_posts/a-well-regulated-militia
Proud UNI Grad
10:42 am on Wednesday, February 20, 2013
Excellent!